Swedish poker winners

[fritzson]

I read, yesterday in the news paper about a 25 year old guy who had won a
nice number of money in European Poker Tour 2-years ago. He has won around
40 000 dollar I think...My math is not the best one. Now the "tax agency" has
found the information on :eek: the Internet and this guy has to pay now. They
has put the winning as an income for him.... now the poor thing has to pay
40% of his winning to the "tax agency". He is not allowed to make tax deduction
for the buy in. :beaten:

However, 40 000 dollar is a nice number of money, but I am thinking about all
the money this guy has put in to get to the EPT.

This is a reason to why I don't want to be a big player. :beaten: :(


Sourse (in swedish): http://www.nsd.se//NYHETER/ARTIKEL.ASPX?ArticleID=4700296

[DangerMouse420]

Strange coincidence :eek: I was just checking the UK laws (God bless England - No tax on gambling here :D ) and came across this article.

November 19 - It was yet another case of local laws contradicting the greater European Union law when one Swedish poker player won his case against the country's tax authorities.

According to the Swedish tabloid, Ostgota Correspondenten, the case began when the taxman demanded that the gambler cough up taxes on his winnings while playing online poker.

The man refused, saying that the money was won at online poker sites that were based in countries that were part of the European Union and therefore winnings were not subject to Swedish tax laws.

When the Skatteverket - the Swedish tax authorities - turned down the player's line of argument, he took the case to the county administrative court.

It was there that the residing judge ruled that the Swedish poker player was correct in his assumption that he did not have to pay taxes on winnings off a poker site that was based in the Isle of Man. This was because the Isle of Man is considered part of the European Union and the taxes on his $80,000 windfall were therefore not taxable.

However, the player's victory was only partial. The judge ruled that winnings off sites that were located in different areas in Europe were subject to taxes, because these places were not part of the Union. As a result, the player still had to pay tax on winnings from a site in Monaco.

According the European Union law, winnings from online games that include poker are exempt from taxation within the Union, and this is the law that the player based his argument on.

So depending where he won his money he might be able to appeal against the decision.

[DADuhWEEwah]

Is there tax in England if you do it for a living? Buy a house with it a car etc etc???? If not I may be doing some research.

[DADuhWEEwah]

I am drunk I prob wont do research but to hell with taxes!

[DangerMouse420]

Is there tax in England if you do it for a living? Buy a house with it a car etc etc???? If not I may be doing some research.

Short answer is no.

The official line is . . .

BIM22017 - Trade: exceptions & alternatives: betting and gambling: the professional gambler
The fact that a taxpayer has a system by which they place their bets, or that they are sufficiently successful to earn a living by gambling does not make their activities a trade.

The case of Graham v Green [1925] 9TC309 concerned a man whose sole means of livelihood came from betting on horses at starting prices. Rowlatt J says at pages 313 and 314:

“Now we come to betting, pure and simple… the man who bets with the bookmaker, and that is this case. These are mere bets. Each time he puts on his money, at whatever may be the starting price. I do not think he could be said to organise his effort in the same way as a bookmaker organises his. I do not think the subject matter from his point of view is susceptible of it. In effect all he is doing is just what a man does who is a skilful player at cards, who plays every day. He plays to- day and he plays to-morrow and he plays the next day and he is skilful on each of the three days, more skilful on the whole than the people with whom he plays, and he wins. But I do not think that you can find, in his case, any conception arising in which his individual operations can be said to be merged in the way that particular operations are merged in the conception of a trade. I think all you can say of that man ... is that he is addicted to betting. It is extremely difficult to express, but it seems to me that people would say he is addicted to betting, and could not say that his vocation is betting. The subject is involved in great difficulty of language, which I think represents great difficulty of thought. There is no tax on a habit. I do not think "habitual'' or even "systematic'' fully describes what is essential in the phrase "`trade, adventure, profession or vocation''.’

This shows that having expertise or being systematic (‘studying form’) is not enough to create a trade of being a ‘professional gambler’.

Some ‘professional gamblers’ do carry on a trade, for example, where they receive appearance money for appearing on television programmes. They are providing a service to a customer (the television production company) for reward. Whether their gambling winnings are proceeds of that trade would depend upon the facts.


From what else I read the UK gov takes this stance because if they acknowledged gambling as a profession the gamblers would be able to claim losses against their taxes.

[NOKYJOKER]

BIM22017 - Trade: exceptions & alternatives: betting and gambling: the professional gambler

The fact that a taxpayer has a system by which they place their bets, or that they are sufficiently successful to earn a living by gambling does not make their activities a trade.

ofcourse !!
If they want to taxes something in the EU it's the online casino that they should tax! unfortunately Sweden has a particular situation in europe but im sure they'll accord their law to the EU soon or they will get penalties..

What i mean is that in Europe gambling is on the way to be defended/rulled/and harmonized by the EU constitution almost in every country of it!!

In france online poker is 2 thirds of the money that people bet online (considerning horse beting and sport betingetc..) and so that's why in 2010 France will open the market to France based online poker site! because they are interested in the taxes they can get from this.

But for us players it will be the same as it's not considered as a trade to play poker for a living.
But in the other hand the state wants to create few thing to controll the addiction problem and other stuff like the fight against money laundering by creating some measure such as :

– ceiling of bets
– ceiling of the supply of count player
– ceiling of the balance of count player
– automatic remittance of winnings on the bank account from a certain sum
– indication of time spent to play (clock)
– indication of losses during the session of gambling
– possibility of auto exclusion from the player
– application in the online game of the procedure of the proscriptions of game.

This is a bit ambitious me thinks as for the use of an electronic ID card to permit to open every session of gambling and that's only propostion of laws for now.
But i think if we have to get there to play safely and get a maximum of ROI on our winnings (no taxes to player but to casino) then it sounds a good program, and off course that's only for France:wave: for now