What makes a winning tourny player?

[IvonAce]

After coming back from an 18month poker break I can't stop losing!

I feel like I'm better than I used to be though. I feel like I can spot weaknesses and exploit them but still lose. I can't stop getting donked on.

Which brings me to the question. To win tournaments, especially MTT do you need to be a donk?

I've seen a lot of players just donking around swapping chips and they always end up with the big stack and make the FT. They get incredible luck always behind in hands but if they only win one every so often they probably make more money than they lose?

I've seen players that I thought were good donking around. I play TAG and 9 times out of 10 get knocked out putting the money in ahead so I might aswell play badly hoping to get the big stack early on?

For example just today there's a guy calling against odds for trashy flushes, he hits one early on and doubles, then almost goes out with only 1k chips left, despite this he clls 200 with J6st he calls 200 flop+turn hits flush on riv and doubles. Then does something similar and has 7k. I've had a couple of good hands and have 6k. A 700 stack pushes and an 800 stack clls on blinds 150/300 I have AK so I rers and the donk calls with 10J and hits the broadway. I'm out and he's a huge chipleader. I didn't expect his call as he'd limped in.

But I see this kind of play a lot where players call against odds, push with trash and gamble all the time.

There's one particular player I see all the time especially in $2 Sattelite SnG's and he always gets his money in behind me but ALWAYS wins! He makes terrible calls and bets/raises yet he keeps winning coz he hits on 4th n 5th all the time.

Should I carry on playing correctly within each hand hoping that variance/luck turns around or should I be changing strategy to donk around in the early levels to get a big stack?

[almurray]

After coming back from an 18month poker break I can't stop losing!

I feel like I'm better than I used to be though. I feel like I can spot weaknesses and exploit them but still lose. I can't stop getting donked on.

Which brings me to the question. To win tournaments, especially MTT do you need to be a donk?

I've seen a lot of players just donking around swapping chips and they always end up with the big stack and make the FT. They get incredible luck always behind in hands but if they only win one every so often they probably make more money than they lose?

I've seen players that I thought were good donking around. I play TAG and 9 times out of 10 get knocked out putting the money in ahead so I might aswell play badly hoping to get the big stack early on?

For example just today there's a guy calling against odds for trashy flushes, he hits one early on and doubles, then almost goes out with only 1k chips left, despite this he clls 200 with J6st he calls 200 flop+turn hits flush on riv and doubles. Then does something similar and has 7k. I've had a couple of good hands and have 6k. A 700 stack pushes and an 800 stack clls on blinds 150/300 I have AK so I rers and the donk calls with 10J and hits the broadway. I'm out and he's a huge chipleader. I didn't expect his call as he'd limped in.

But I see this kind of play a lot where players call against odds, push with trash and gamble all the time.

There's one particular player I see all the time especially in $2 Sattelite SnG's and he always gets his money in behind me but ALWAYS wins! He makes terrible calls and bets/raises yet he keeps winning coz he hits on 4th n 5th all the time.

Should I carry on playing correctly within each hand hoping that variance/luck turns around or should I be changing strategy to donk around in the early levels to get a big stack?

Save your money. Take another break. :wave:

[DJHarmon]

hmmmmmmmm..........seems you are "putting" your chips in before the river........maybe try not racing as much and see if your luck improves........and for playing correctly??? what does that mean?????:beaten::beaten::beaten:

[DJHarmon]

couple other things...........in a multi way pot any connectable is prolly a good chance of winning as AK..........and the other thing is, if you are so focused on what others are doing to you vs. playing your hand..........well?

[Miklosik]

fickle things those, MTTs. One mistake, either by you or by someone in the hand with you and you're gone. nh, adios.

The problem, as I see it, with the standard TAG player is this; they ALWAYS play tight, no matter their position. And by position I mean both at the table and in the tourney. They become a target for everyone to nearly double up on. Looser players, or position players know that the TAG will fold unless he has the nuts. Or at least a made hand.

Myself, I prefer to play MTTs with a $10-$50 buy-in, and when it doesn't work out for me and I'm tilting, I join a $2-$5 one just to play atc.

[IvonAce]

I don't think the run is changing my game though Al. Maybe at the end of the night I'm steaming a little but each day I'm fresh for it. Each time I sit at a table my head is clear of any bad beats or bad runs etc.

I'm just wondering if I should change my game to a much looser style and once I've got a big stack then change back to proper. I just want opinions if that's how you guys do it or whether I just need to carry on as I am. I'll just carry on plugging away if it's just variance.

[IvonAce]

Sorry I had thread open ages before I replied only saw Al's.

Actually, I don't play TAG sorry.

I play loose when the blinds are low and play position a lot. I try to play more pots with players that I've spotted a weakness in. It's hard to explain coz I play different depending on the players. What I don't do is call against the odds postflop for flushes and straights etc. I play a lot more hands nowdays than I used to.

There's no one hand that I'm complaining about, the example I used was of the kind of player not my hand.

I avoid going allin at all if I can help it. I tend to get in cheap with the stations and look to hit something good when they have their 2 pair.

My main problem is when the blinds get big and there's no longer room to see flops with non-premium hands and people are pushing preflop almost every hand. By this time if I haven't got a huge stack I lose my allins and go out.

What I"m saying is should I call against the odds more in the early stages so that when the blinds get big I can afford to raise and fold or to take some knocks.

[Miklosik]

I'm not so sure that calling against the odds is a good thing. The lack of post flop game exhibited by so many makes calling a bit dangerous. Should you decide to play a hand where you believe the odds are against you, and you have position, raise it up. That is not to say that I think I should raise or reraise in position when you're 70-30 but if it's 55-45 or even 60-40 it may be worth a try every once in awhile.

[IvonAce]

To be honest I think I should just stick to my game. What I was asking was about making bad plays and bad calls on purpose hoping to fluke getting a big stack.

[fritzson]

After coming back from an 18month poker break I can't stop losing!

I feel like I'm better than I used to be though. I feel like I can spot weaknesses and exploit them but still lose. I can't stop getting donked on.

Which brings me to the question. To win tournaments, especially MTT do you need to be a donk?

I've seen a lot of players just donking around swapping chips and they always end up with the big stack and make the FT. They get incredible luck always behind in hands but if they only win one every so often they probably make more money than they lose?

I've seen players that I thought were good donking around. I play TAG and 9 times out of 10 get knocked out putting the money in ahead so I might aswell play badly hoping to get the big stack early on?

For example just today there's a guy calling against odds for trashy flushes, he hits one early on and doubles, then almost goes out with only 1k chips left, despite this he clls 200 with J6st he calls 200 flop+turn hits flush on riv and doubles. Then does something similar and has 7k. I've had a couple of good hands and have 6k. A 700 stack pushes and an 800 stack clls on blinds 150/300 I have AK so I rers and the donk calls with 10J and hits the broadway. I'm out and he's a huge chipleader. I didn't expect his call as he'd limped in.

But I see this kind of play a lot where players call against odds, push with trash and gamble all the time.

There's one particular player I see all the time especially in $2 Sattelite SnG's and he always gets his money in behind me but ALWAYS wins! He makes terrible calls and bets/raises yet he keeps winning coz he hits on 4th n 5th all the time.

Should I carry on playing correctly within each hand hoping that variance/luck turns around or should I be changing strategy to donk around in the early levels to get a big stack?



I am far from the best player around this ship, but one thing I have learned
through the years is that play your game, analyze the hands you are losing
and try to understand why you were busted out, why he/she called you
with that "****py" hand...

Try to ignore donks and try to see them as smart players (maybe they are
not, maybe they are loser, but that is their problem in the long run). I mean,
it is just lovely, you focus on good hands, and when you finally get that
good hand you get a caller who covers the area below the belt. It is just
perfect. He/she putted his/her hand where the leak were and caught the chips. :( :beaten:

So, ok, it wasn't the best hand to start with, but it was a lucky shot.

Another thing I have learned too, it is analyze the stats... how many lost do
you take before you hit the win. Use bankroll management and you'll survive
in the end. (so ok, I have negative roi, but who knows the real fact? :P )

Yeah, if you know how people play in tourneys, break the rules. People
expect one kind of game and that is aces,face cards and pairs... and the
donks plays any kind of suited and doesn't care for raises or all ins... and
have the strategies in mind. How and when do people as they do, and when
should you sit back and when should you act... it is all about finding a
balance, but never forget to play. It isn't necessary to be chipleader in the
beginning, it i better to follow the blinds. Some times it works and sometimes
it just sucks.

In the end, there is five cards on the table and any hand can win....

Never play when you are tired or half tired, always play when you are
happy and alert. Those times you do the best game... well, it is for me
anyway. Here is my biggest problem of course. lol

I am trying to say, that you need to be a "rule-breaker" to win in between.
Good hands doesn't always win. BTW, who set the rules??? :confused:
It is those times when you are a "rule breaker" you get called donkey! :beaten:

Solitair is good practice for poker... or was it poker is good practice for solitair. Oh well, I don't know where that came from. :o


Good luck in your game!

[Snoggler]

I like what everyone wrote:win:

In a nut shell though. Play your game IvonA i know its usually a good one:win:But adjust your aggressiveness to the table. Great offense is a great defence ;)

Yeah i have heard its bad poker. But when your against bad poker players.
A donk buster call/maneuver ;)

[cazwil]

I'm frustrated too at the moment.

I've mixed up my game, played my normal game and well blahhhhhhhh

[Froliche]

The problem is there isn't always a "proper" it's not BJ where you have a book telling you exactly how to lose 50.5% of the hands or w/e lol. Just do some experimenting. Make plays baby!! wooooo!

[inlecture9]

i would honestly say as my opinion to disregard everything that people have been saying about "MAKE PLAYS!!! WOOOO fun" ... making plays early in the tourney has a chance to gain a chip stack (for the moment) but it also has a chance to put you in a very tough spot for the rest of the tourney where you are low on chips and now have to play catch up to the rest of the field...

remember this when your playing

"Tournaments are not won in the early stages, they are only lost"

Tournaments are won at the end... play tight(ish) depending on the player you are facing in the beginning, preserve your chip stack so that you can make the bigger moves you need to make when the blinds go up.

Do NOT start to play like some of these other guys who are donking like crazy... there is a reason you keep seeing the same guy at the 2$ satellite, its because his donk play style only works so much, and it never works enough to get him anywhere big. Play your style, and variance will favor you in the long run.

[IvonAce]

Would you consider this bad luck or good luck?:

I played in the dazzler and finished 11th but in the 240 hands I played I had 1xQQ, 1x88, 2x66 and 1x44. 1xAQ and 2xAJ. That was it lol. No other pp and not even an AK!

I doubled off the AQ, AJ, 88 and 66. Somebody was allin every single hand and the blinds were huge so there wasn't much room for stealing with the trash I was being dealt.

So was it good luck to make it to 11th? Or bad luck that I maybe coulda won had I got my share of the pp and AK.

It seems lately that I'm just card dead throughout. I'm not playing too tight; I mean that I'm getting dealt things like 29os constantly.

[EgonOlsen]

Trust me Ivon, I know where you coming from. Ive myself just come back after more than 1 years break. I used to regulary win or cash in all the 1k tours in the evening europetime. Now I cant get near cashing so I totally gave up on them. Either I go total carddead for 1+ hours and when I finally get a hand im dominted or get a horrible beat.

Instead I started on the 15$+ tours only, but even then I usually get exited before the money on horrible beats, and I dont mean preflop all ins and stuff like that, but where I flop a 90% lead end all in on that flop and goes out.

and I like u feel that the bad move hits are much more frequent than they used to be. This ofc is just a feeling.
As you can see on the BB forum, im no stranger to beats and they all from the most expensive tours on the site, and not a Dazzler, where donking is to be expected.

I will keep playing, but if the bankroll go dry before I get this turned I would seriously consider moving. :)

[Snoggler]

I get called a Micro player. I have only one problem with that comment.

That would be cause i have played most all the tourney's on this site at one point or the other,Not as often as some of you in this thread course but I still have, my comment goes for all level's of play.

There are donks and fish on all level's. Those that dont care about playing poker. Just the almighty buck. *Luck favours the foolish*

Streaks are not uncommon both live and online. I have not taken a break in 5yrs of online other than not playing for a couple days. Maybe just wondering around the casino* site to see who is hitting, with what , etc.

One thing i dont do is post much in way of bad beat's. Enough people have seen em while im playing anyway, to know what kind of beat's i have had. I can tell you this though, i think every bad beat post on site is identical to mine :wave:

I perservale though. I swear at those beat's, darn right I do :wave: lol. I look at what I played then theirs; if i did nothing wrong other than bad mojo*luck then i move on. Otherwise I will tag and watch what I play with/against them next time*obviously!

Micro/any level. If you like/love poker, playing card's. And can afford it, what ever level you like to play or feel your capable of.*And we should as card players be able to play all level's.* long as you can buy in, and handle the lose. :D we are gambling remember ;)

Play on , Rock on .. Snoggler.

Good Luck All

[DJHarmon]

i play mostly small stuff but have ventured up to the 10 dollar level super tourneys on Sundays..............same type of people everywhere............just have to remember that 90% of em are losing players..........

[IvonAce]

This is an example of the kind of play that made me start this thread:

I'm in an MTT, I won't go into the beats I took before getting to this point; after the break I have 7k villain has 12k. Blinds are 250/500 and 4 of us have limped in to see a flop K-10-x rainbow. I have KQ and bet 1k, villain rers to 2k so I push the rest of my chips thinking I have the best hand or he has K10, blinds are big so I want to go now. Anyway, he calls (with 2-1 pot odds) and turns over Q10, woopee I have him owned till a 10 comes on river.

As I'm sat writing in his notes somebody sits next to him that he knows and they start talking and villain says he won this MTT yesterday. So I look him up on SS with one of my 5 a day and he has great stats.

Raising and calling with middle pair in a limped pot.

Normally I don't tilt very easily but I donked out of a more expensive MTT shortly after because this happened.

When I started this thread I didn't intend to talk about bad beats or how my play is right/wrong. What I intended to discuss was this 'donk for a big stack and donk to the FT' strategy that seems to be working for a lot of players.

If you watch these players they swap chips alot but once they get a big stack they can afford to lose allins and thats why they keep winning.

I can understand the strategy. If they come 1st in an MTT they have hundreds of buy-ins for that same MTT so they can keep trying the donk-up style. Also they get called when they do have it.

Discuss :)

[Snoggler]

Hey i caught that Ivon. lol Heck i have watched that donk up style for long while. Sadly some of them have great stats on shark, how ? :beaten: id like to know. I admit to trying same tactic, and know others that have tried to no avail.

Personally I still feel patience on these player's is all that is needed. Eventually it will cost them more than what they wanted.

If you want to discuss the strategy that would be fine. But i dont see one of these kind of player's/playing this style commin in here to explain lol.

Why i said patience your a good solid player. Sucks to be us to lose against that kind of play. Their is no rhyme or reason to their play like this. If there is i dare someone to write it down ;)

[IvonAce]

I think the worst thing about these players is that if you don't know them you fold but you watch them play; get a read and then go with it. You turn over the cards to see like 90% in your favour, you pat yourself on the back for a job well done and then get spanked by the dealer.

I FT'd in a MTT last night but typically it was a micro buy-in :) Still it was nice to make it through a few donkings.

I'm just going to stick to SnG I think and play MTT for fun.

[DJHarmon]

Find your strength and stick with it................good luck!!!

[Froliche]

i would honestly say as my opinion to disregard everything that people have been saying about "MAKE PLAYS!!! WOOOO fun"

Nah don't disregard, employ to the fullest!

[Snoggler]

There are alot of books on poker, and there are alot of online poker schools.

You want the best way to learn. Its playing here, with these people you see posting here!

Good bad or ugly player, do not matter! Garontee you get a clue ;) Take the advice and use it to your advantage. :win:

[serzrokoko]

Trust me Ivon, I know where you coming from. Ive myself just come back after more than 1 years break. I used to regulary win or cash in all the 1k tours in the evening europetime. Now I cant get near cashing so I totally gave up on them. Either I go total carddead for 1+ hours and when I finally get a hand im dominted or get a horrible beat.

Instead I started on the 15$+ tours only, but even then I usually get exited before the money on horrible beats, and I dont mean preflop all ins and stuff like that, but where I flop a 90% lead end all in on that flop and goes out.

and I like u feel that the bad move hits are much more frequent than they used to be. This ofc is just a feeling.
As you can see on the BB forum, im no stranger to beats and they all from the most expensive tours on the site, and not a Dazzler, where donking is to be expected.

I will keep playing, but if the bankroll go dry before I get this turned I would seriously consider moving. :)
u r one of the best players here......Im back after 15 months....snogler will say patience is key

[Survivor777]

Patience and timing is the key, for me anyway. Pick your battles and play position :) When the hand is over and you lost some chips to a BB, let it go immediately and focus on the next hand so you don't go on tilt :wave:

[IvonAce]

Would you have done anything different here? I was in 3rd place with 19 players left and this was a $10 Freezout. I normally will take on a short stack with AK but afterwards I thought I should have just folded because I didn't have to play. I couldn't call the 16k though or I would have been last if I lost.

This was the pivotal hand for me as I got trash after trash and crawled into 7th place after this. Had I folded in the first instance here I might have done some stealing later and done much better.

[DJHarmon]

I agree with your assessment, Ivon............

[dirkthework]

lol i love how froliche is the only one itt giving good adivce and its totally unnoticed... poker aint dead yet...;)

[Miklosik]

lol i love how froliche is the only one itt giving good adivce and its totally unnoticed... poker aint dead yet...;)
lol right back at you. You state the above as if it's fact rather than opinion. One cannot assume that a post has gone unnoticed simply because it hasn't been replied to.

This thread is full of OPINIONS on strategies that work for those that post them.

[HammerMan1]

lol pretty snarky :)

[DJHarmon]

snark snark...............hey this snarking can be fun.............

[Yezariael]

answer to #27

yep quite bad

but i used to do it a lot to :)

[IvonAce]

I've figured out how to win in tournaments!

You find IvonAce then play in hands vs him to take his chips before anybody else does